Christi: [00:00:00] Looking to start a podcast, but don’t know where to begin. Look no further. The team at Dodge Media Productions has 20 years of experience as podcast listeners and observing the industry and eight years experience in podcast production. We can help you take your podcast from idea to fruition and we’ll make the process seamless and easy.

We’ll help you with everything from recording and editing to hitting the charts on Apple podcasts. So what are you waiting for? Contact us today and let’s get started. DodgeMediaProductions. com.

Brennan: You’re listening to Dodge Movie Podcast. Your hosts are Christi and Mike Dodge, the founders of Dodge Media Productions.

We produce films and podcasts, so this is a podcast about films. Join them as they share their passion for filmmaking.

Christi: Welcome back everybody to the Dodge Movie Podcast. This is episode 173 and we are going to be talking about the 2004 Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

Mike: Good job.

Christi: It is directed by Michel Gondry.

Mike: [00:01:00] Is he French?

Christi: He is. And he did 2006 The Science of Sleep, which I’d never heard of. 2008 Be Kind Rewind.

Mike: Oh, that one I think I even saw.

Christi: 2012 The We and the I. . Okay, it stars Jim Carrey, who plays Joel, Kate Winslet, who plays Clementine, Tom Wilkinson, who plays a doctor, Elijah Wood plays Patrick, Mark Ruffalo plays Stan, Jane Adams plays Carrie, David Cross plays Rob, and Kirsten Dunst plays Mary.

The DP was Ellen Kuras, who did 88’s POV, 2008’s The Betrayal, and A 2021 and a Morrow favorite, Pretend It’s a City, the series by Fran, or that, that features Fran Lebowitz.

Mike: Oh yeah, he did talk about that.

Christi: Yeah, [00:02:00] she’s being interviewed by Martin Scorsese.

Mike: See, and I always think of Annie Leibovitz, which is a different person,

Christi: A different person. I think you would kind of like the cut of Fran’s jib. Although you might find her a bit abrasive. Okay. We should watch an ep just so you can get a flavor of her. I, I adore her. I think she’s kind of fun and it’s a great, she, the thing that she has that I am so envious of She has no problem stating her opinion as fact.

Mike: I will say from personal experience, sometimes you don’t enjoy that when someone states their opinion as fact.

Christi: I know, and I wish I could do it. Maybe it’s because I don’t have to live with her.

Mike: Yeah, I think I don’t know. I don’t know if you would enjoy that very much long term.

Christi: But she is just unabashed.

The writer of the film is Charlie Kaufman. He brought us Confessions of a Dangerous Mind in 2002. 1999’s being John Malkovich, 2002’s Adaptation. [00:03:00] And I also have Michel credited as well as Pierre Bismuth in the writer’s section.

Mike: People really love Charlie Kaufman when we get to talk about the writing.

I’ll give some opinions, but it’s good to know that he’s not the only listed writer because then he can point at other people for the quibbles.

Christi: We watch this on Apple for 3.99. It is a focus feature film and the, The synopsis for the film is, when their relationship turns sour, a couple undergoes a medical procedure to have each other erased from their memories.

Forever. And the film uses elements of psychological drama, surrealism, science fiction, and a non linear narrative to explore the nature of memory and love. I’ve got a few taglines here for you. I already forgot how I used to feel about you.

Mike: That’s the tagline.

Christi: Our memories make us who we are.

You can’t change the past.

Mike: No, blech.

Christi: Would you erase me?

Mike: No. [00:04:00]

Christi: This spring, clear your mind.

Mike: No, first one’s a good one.

Christi: I’m doing fine without you. That’s not good.

Mike: Nope. Now that first one is actually solid work.

Christi: I like this one. Do I know you?

Mike: Who are you? Is that the notebook? Where did we get who are you from?

Christi: Yeah, it was from the Notebook. It’s not, I don’t think it’s done. Oh, no, I think it is actual dialogue. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. It’s a James Garner at the end. You can erase someone from your mind. Getting him out of your heart is another story.

Mike: That’s a Hallmark movie tagline. That is not this film, but I love that.

I don’t know. I’m tempted to write a movie around that, that tagline.

Christi: Would it be like 50 first dates? Like she forgot him, but then slowly.

Mike: Oh, yeah, so she, she she it’s wintertime, so the roads are icy, and she crashes and bonks her head, and so she forgets her handsome Bellamy boyfriend in a small town, and she’s rescued by the doctor The local [00:05:00] small town doctor and so she she thinks she falls in love with him.

Yeah. I mean it writes it

Christi: Oh, wow, because the whole getting him out of your heart. I felt like she would fall in love with the doctor And then or you know, basically the one she’s supposed to end up with And, but then she forgets him and so he keeps trying to put himself in her life at different points and of course she finds him annoying at first, but then her heart can’t stop pulling them together.

Mike: I think you’re right. I think the small town doctor is more the Bellamy. And so at about halfway through the film her, her fiance shows up in town and then there’s a bunch of comic hijinks as he tries to, Oh, remember, she liked ice skating. So he goes to the ice skating rink and the doctor’s there and there’s hot chocolate spilled.

I mean, again, it writes itself. Right.

Christi: So I was pretty sure I had seen this movie before, but I couldn’t remember.

Mike: I legitimately know I rented and watched this movie and I remembered [00:06:00] Only one frame out of the entire film.

Christi: Yeah, I, let’s see, what did I say? 2004. So we obviously were together.

Mike: Yes. I, I, I, sorry to the people involved, but it did not stick in my brain.

Christi: Right. Cause as we were prepping for it, I was trying to talk through what I remembered and you were like, you remember far more than this.

Mike: I remember Kate Winslet with funny colored hair on a beach.

Christi: I remember not liking her the first time, and I didn’t find her as annoying the second time.

Mike: Yeah, this time she comes across more just as mentally ill.

Yeah. Which, I mean, you know, it happens, right? But she’s not quite right even before they start messing with her brain.

Christi: So, obviously spoilers, like we’re not gonna, like, if you haven’t seen this movie, just Spoiler, Kate Winslet is in the movie. And you care. But, so when they see each other at the beginning, On the [00:07:00] train.

Mike: That’s their second.

Christi: Right. It’s their second time meeting, but does she remember?

Mike: No, they both had the, okay, both had the procedure.

Christi: So she’s not like dicking with it. I was trying to remember why I didn’t like her character.

Mike: There was a point where she, I think in the bookstore, where it appeared that she was messing with him.

It was I will just call it out. It was kind of creepy. The whole Jim Carrey as a baby and then Kate Winslet at his mom and him looking at her crotch, super duper creepy. That was difficult for me to get past. So, but her character is kind of like a manic pixie dream girl, but if she did acid or something, she’s just like really, really out there.

Mike: And I think. It makes her not as likable and then you put her next to Kirsten Dunst, Kirsten Dunst, sorry. Who is kind of by definition super likable. So it, it kind of made the Clementine character even more the height and the contrast.

Christi: Kirsten and Mark huge ethical issues with their

Mike: Oh, jeez,

Christi: [00:08:00] yeah,

Mike: I mean this Yeah, the whole business, I think, has some ethical problems.

Christi: Well, that’s true. But, you know, dancing over the patient.

Mike: Using him as a table for their snack foods. Yeah Yeah, so we’re edging into writing here, but that was one of the notes I had was how can the techs work in the office all day and then go all night and do a brain surgery operate or brain operation?

Christi: Was that normal that they would go to the people’s homes? I guess it was.

Mike: Yeah. In dialogue, they established that you just go to sleep and you wake up without the memories.

Christi: Oh yeah. So yeah, that’s a good point. Unless all appointments started at like 2 PM in the afternoon.

Mike: So this movie actually kind of is a good example of how direction can matter because watching it this time, I was able to see how the script would read pretty cool because there was this.

Not really time travel, but this nonlinear narrative. And so there was a bit of a mystery as you’re like, [00:09:00] wait a second. What do you mean? That’s the first time you’ve met. And then why was Elijah woods character? Why did he say that that was weird? And then later in the film, you’re like, Oh, that, Oh, that’s after.

That’s why it makes sense. I could see how it was structured. In a fashion that could have been a clever cool reveal a la The Sixth Sense This was not that film. This film was just confusing and weird and oh, vey,

Christi: It was funny because one of the videos I watched Kate Winslet was doing, , press to promote the film, and she gave away the fact that that they had already erased their memories .

And I was like, Oh, I don’t think you’re supposed to say that that’s supposed to come out while you’re watching the film. But she Yeah, so I thought, oops,

Mike: But this is a case where I mean, I sincerely hope the director landed the film he intended to make just for me. It was too confusing and not in like a, that’s a fun mystery kind of [00:10:00] way.

I think somebody brought up Memento.

Christi: I said, Inception was another film.

Mike: Yeah. Nolan liked to do that a couple of times. So it can be done. Right. I just think in this case, it was too weird for me. And maybe for other people who like more surreal stuff, it landed perfectly. But for me. I mentioned while we were watching it, I felt like I needed to have a corkboard with the red yarns to follow what was going on.

And I consider myself a decently intelligent viewer, and if I have to think that hard, it’s maybe too far. Right.

Christi: So I did tell you, which only annoyed you, that Her hair, Clementine’s hair, was blue when they met and she was wearing the bright orange. So that made me think of the Hollywood blue and orange.

In fact, I saw one of our fans and she was wearing a blue and white striped top with an orange coat over it. I said, Oh, you’re wearing the Hollywood blue and orange. Clementine’s hair goes through very several [00:11:00] color changes from blue to orange to red to green to Brown, which is supposed to be her natural color.

And they did this to help the viewer keep track of where the relationship of Joel and Clementine was in chorus in, you know, in relationship to the plot.

Mike: Yeah. But again, I think in the screenplay that might’ve read better than it played on screen.

Christi: Right. And so this film was shot on film and the studio had to come to Michel and say Because they would do some improvs and they would shoot some B roll anytime they were filming in a location, they would shoot kind of B roll of the two of them as a couple so that they could show it, you know, at different times throughout the film.

Because when we first meet them, it seems like their relationship happens rather quickly. So he wanted to be able to show that, [00:12:00] you know, they had a relationship outside of this. It, at all the different, you know, shooting locations, they would run the cameras and sometimes they would run them while they chatted about how they were going to block something or how they were.

And I think most audiences, And listeners that anytime you’re running actual film like that, it is so expensive.

Mike: So in, I think every season of project green light, there’s at least one episode where Chris Moore, the producer shows up on set with his Venti Starbucks and is talking to them about why they’re behind schedule and wasting money.

And. To me this, that’s exactly what happened is somehow some, but the, the bill from the photo lab got back to the studio and they’re like, wait, what?, How did they do three hours of footage yesterday? Well, they just kept it running while they were talking. And so Chris Moore or his equivalent showed up from the studio on set [00:13:00] the next day and told the director, cut that out, cut it out.

Christi: Michel liked to do everything practically, which is cool. If there was a haze behind Joel, then we had to build either a scrim for some Teamsters to carry, or, you know, they had to figure it out. It was very interesting watching some of the behind the scenes of how they did some of the effects, which were really cool.

And at one point I was telling you the story that he wanted to put a car in a lake in like the fall so that in the winter it would freeze under the ice and they could film and they wanted the car to have the headlights still working. So they were going to have to bury a battery and you brought up the good, the good point.

How are they going to turn on said lights? Yeah. So, I don’t know if Michelle had not worked that out, but that idea got nixed

Mike: Which, yeah I, I just, I, I [00:14:00] see him going through this and somebody on set, either a grip or maybe the guy from the the automotive place just saying, , how you can turn the lights on Michel?

Like, how’s that going to work? It’s frozen. Like you can’t even put a scuba diver in it.

Christi: I guess philosophically, is there someone that. A past, I’ll say a romantic, we’ll just keep it there because I know the answer to just anyone, what that would be, but was there a romantic partner that you would like to erase from your mind?

Mike: Oh yeah, a couple actually. Yeah but there’s, well, okay, so that’s a really good question to ask a writer. Because there is that, there is a couple of fun stories. So if I erase that person, would I erase those stories?

Christi: I would think you would have to.

Mike: Yeah, still probably worth it.

Christi: So as far as character development, did Joel, I mean, it’s tricky because yes, they did change over time because there were portions of their life that would [00:15:00] have impacted them.

Mike: Made the note here, Clementine puts the manic in Manic Pixie Dream Girl.

Christi: I believe her character started that phrase.

Mike: Yeah, pretty much. I think it’s at the beginning. Crazy hair color, wacky clothes, obsession with vintage things, sneaks booze into her coffee, says, The ice won’t crack whilst lying on top of cracks breaking and entering in a fun kind of way and stolen baseball ballpark seats as interior furniture.

She is so completely, and I don’t feel like she really changes over the course of the film. Jim Carrey’s character Joel, he I, I kind of feel like his character does have a bit of a change, but then this bumps into what I consider The biggest writing faux pas. I really didn’t understand this at the end of the film.

There’s a recording where he or she is talking about the things that, that were erased and she’d come over to his apartment and they were going to try to make things work and he, he leaves it playing ruining everything. And that [00:16:00] didn’t make any sense to me. And maybe the writers say, Oh, you know, it makes sense for the character, blah, blah, blah.

But I apparently didn’t get enough of the character for that to make sense. That was a major makes no sense. Ruin everything moment. Just you made it. a film and then at the end you fumbled on the goal line. It was nuts. I would say not only did it not make sense to you, it frustrated you. Very much frustrated me.

So I think it credit to Kate Winslet’s acting because as I mentioned before, Clementine comes across as kind of sympathetic, but ill, right? And Joel, I don’t know if he’s as much a sympathetic character.

Christi: He’s definitely depressed.

Mike: Yeah, but and maybe that’s again that could have been what what Jim was going for what the director asked for But he was yeah a less sympathetic character, and I didn’t feel like I really I got what that character of Joel was Quite like I did Clementine.

Christi: Right was he better off at the end than the beginning? I [00:17:00] don’t feel like it I don’t think so. He’s about this Well, I guess did the end, was the end kind of like just after the beginning, we just got to see like the prequel.

Mike: And there’s, there’s I think a good line to summarize her character when he says constantly talking isn’t necessarily communicating, but that was the manic part.

Right. So I, again, I, I just, I, I guess I felt like I am more connected to them. Now there is not motivation established really for. The Ruffalo character, right? And, and like you said he, he’s engaging in some questionable practices. I totally get the Kirsten Dunst character because she has a thing for the Full Monty doctor.

And I, I guess I kind of understand the doctor’s motivation when we see Kirsten Dunst jumping up and down on the bed in her underpants. So, that part I kind of got, but Rufalo was a little confused for me, like how people would be involved in that business, right? So that was but the movie was long enough.

We didn’t need [00:18:00] extra character development there.

Christi: Right. And so, like I said the sets were all pretty practical. There’s a scene where I can’t remember What it was, it was almost like, and it was like an exterior and then it pulls through and then you’re in a house and they built that set practically so that the, all the camera had to do was pull back through the doorway.

It was wild. I know that’s where I can’t imagine, you know, the set design and all that stuff for this film. It’s just amazing. Under sound, I have. At the very beginning when they’re on the train, that the violin music was almost too loud and you couldn’t hear their dialogue, and Michel said that that was intentional, because, and then when they’re quiet, There’s no violin music.

So instead of you might hear them speak and then you there would be violin music under Silence, he did the reverse. So there was silence with [00:19:00] silence and then violin music over there talking It’s just like I don’t know about this Michel.

Mike: Right? He’s a little experimental I did make the note that the actual music itself reminded me of The short film we saw in grade school.

That was Peter and the Wolf You Which I think is Tchaikovsky and it was just like, is this, is this supposed to be evoking elementary school short films? Like it was a little confusing. Yeah, I I feel like the intent behind the film was for her to be bright and colorful and him to be drab. So I could have understood more if the music was like when she was talking and not him or something, but that, that, yeah, that’s an interesting choice.

I don’t know if it worked for me.

Christi: But then usually a film like that, she brightens up his world,

Mike: right? So you get the music

Christi: and he. Levels her out but I didn’t really feel like it just felt like she was [00:20:00] frustrating and causing him angst until they broke up and he wanted to forget about her.

But then ultimately he, I guess they did love each other and so they were drawn back together because if in the, on the train, but there was something there.

Mike: . . Maybe the intent wasn’t supposed to be, it was this unspoken chemistry that was undeniable even if they remove the memories, that maybe was what the intent of the message, film, the message, intended message of the film was, I didn’t get that, right, it was more like she pursued him, I didn’t know why he was still with her.

Christi: Well, and his life definitely wasn’t, better because like he comes at the very beginning. We don’t know why, but he comes out and you know, his car’s wrecked. And so, you know, kind of knowing her cost him some things. So, cause I could see the message being Don’t have regrets or don’t try to erase unpleasant things because they, you know, they do alter us, they change us, they, and, and [00:21:00] one could make it that it’s for the better.

You know, you learn and, and you grow.

Mike: Yeah, through adversity. ,

Christi: But I don’t feel like that was necessarily the message of this film.

Mike: No, no, very, very true. It definitely, the more I think about it, surreal is one word, but experimental is a better word. It just was like, yeah, you know, it’s his thing. The guy was gonna do, do a film and he experimented with some stuff.

Christi: And this is a top rated movie. I mean, there are tons of people that Absolutely love this movie

Mike: That I don’t understand at all. I mean, it’s fine that he did the thing. Please don’t hear me. I’m not trying to throw shade on the director. I just, yeah, I didn’t respond to the material at all.

Christi: All right. Was there any head trauma in this film?

Mike: There was well, somewhat head drama. So Clementine punches Joel in the shoulder very, very hard. Then a bully twists a juvenile Joel’s arm. So there’s a little bit of violence there. And then my last one is Carrie is crushed by an igloo cooler. And I think that was Jane Addams, somebody’s [00:22:00] friend or sister.

I think that was Carrie. So there’s a little bit, a little bit of trauma there.

Christi: Jane Addams was Carrie. We got some smoochies.

Mike: Smoochie, smoochie, smoochie.

Christi: Cause this was a love story.

Mike: Joel and Clementine smooch under the blanket, and then they smooch while MST3K ing the drive in movie. And then, Kirsten Dunst kisses the Full Monty guy.

So. Right. Oh,

Christi: But didn’t Kirsten, Kirsten didn’t ever kiss Ruffalo?

Mike: No, no. She Ruffalo, I think, he was interested in her. I will mention it is tradition that when you Put a male character in their underpants. You actually give them two pairs and they did not do that this time. You get to see the little Ruffalo kind of.

Christi: So under costumes you would say. .

Mike: Yeah. Like a credit to him, but woof. So yeah, no, he, he is interested in her, but she only has eyes for Tom Wilkinson.

Christi: Driving review please.

Mike: You mentioned it earlier that [00:23:00] he parks by braille. We see the side of his car . But that bronze 94 Toyota Corolla four door is perhaps the blandest possible vehicle they could have chosen, right?

Yes. It shows a viewer that he. Just has nothing going on. That’s a depressed looking car. I’m sure it was a fine car at the time, but this one looks just bleh. And then there’s a line of dialogue, I kinda sorta wrecked your car. So, that’s sad. Womp womp. Oops.

Christi: Alright, shall we go to the numbers?

Mike: Let’s go to the numbers.

Christi: This film had a budget of twenty million dollars. And it made domestically 34. 3, which adjusted for today would be like 60 million. So a little about double and worldwide in when it was released, it made 72. 4 million. So a success, I would say it gets an 8. 3 out of 10. on IMDb.

Critics have [00:24:00] loved it at 92 percent and like I said, audiences followed right behind them at 94%. So we are an anomaly. . This film is an hour and 48 minutes. It is rated R and it is a drama, romance, sci fi. I guess the sci fi because of the Time travel.

Mike: Well,

it’s not really time travel, I wouldn’t call it science fiction.

Christi: I wouldn’t call it science fiction.

Mike: Not at all. No.

Christi: Okay, it won an Oscar for best writing. Kaufman won that for the screenplay. Huh. And Michel and Pierre for story. Kaufman also won for won a BAFTA. For the writing, , and it won a BAFTA for the editing of this film. It, in addition to that, it had 73 other wins and 111 nominations.

So we are in the minority.

Mike: That’s okay, some people liked Barbie. Right, there’s no accounting for taste

Christi: and it this is a focus [00:25:00] features film It took place in Montauk, New York Bayonne, New Jersey Columbia University Chinatown in Manhattan Mount Vernon, New York Park Slope, New York and Yonkers, New York

Mike: I think this film might be where I first heard of Montauk, but I thought it was a pretty good advertisement for the Montauk Visitors Bureau.

Christi: Hmm. Mm hmm. In the winter even. Yeah. Yeah. All right, everybody. . Let’s see what we’re going to watch next week.

Mike: Can I offer you some feedback? Feedback. It’s Wine Country.

Christi: I love this movie.

This is a superfan Elizabeth pick. She guessed one of the months last, actually, I don’t, I don’t know how much she listens to the podcast, but she reads our newsletter, which you can get at.

Send me an email, christie, at dodgemediaproductions. com and I can put you on the newsletter list and you can get our podcast newsletter and our filmmaking newsletter that we send out [00:26:00] each month.

Mike: I think this will be our fourth time watching Wine Country. It it is in heavy rotation.

Christi: Probably not for me. It’s probably, I probably watch this movie more. Cause it’s like comfort food for me. Right, right. I love this movie. . Okay everybody, have a wonderful weekend and never forget.

Mike: Dodges never stop and neither do the movies. Thanks for listening to Dodge Movie Podcast with Christi and Mike Dodge of Dodge Media Productions.

To find out more about this podcast and what we do, go to DodgeMediaProductions. com. Subscribe, share, leave a comment, and tell us what we should watch next. Dodges never stop and neither do the movies.