Christi Dodge  0:00  

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Brennan  0:30  

You’relistening to Dodge Movie Podcast. Your hosts are Christi and Mike Dodge the founders of Dodge Media Productions. We produce films and podcasts. So this is a podcast about films. Join them as they share their passion for filmmaking.

Christi Dodge  0:46  

Welcome back, everybody to the Dodge Movie Podcast. Today we are talking about episode 146. The movie Flower from 2017. We watched this one on Kanopy so you too can watch this if you have a library card for free on the Kanopy, app website.

Mike Dodge  1:05  

Maybe app?

Christi Dodge  1:07  

It’s directed by Max Winkler and if that last name sounds familiar, he is Henry Winkler son but a very accomplished director. He did a film called Ceremony in 2010. And film right after this one called Jungleland in 2019. It stars Zoey Deutsch. I should mention too while we’re talking about nepo babies, she is the daughter of Lea Thompson. It also stars Kathryn Hahn, Tim Heidecker and Adam Scott. The DP is Carolina Costa, and she is the youngest person to win the Ariel Award, which I guess is kind of like the Oscars but for Mexico. So she is a well awarded DP. And the writer is Alex McCauley, Matt Spicer and Max Winkler and I think that kind of comes this script was actually on the blacklist. We’ve mentioned that before other scripts. 

Mike Dodge  2:07  

If Alex McCauley married Macaulay Culkin he’d be Macaulay McCauley.

Christi Dodge  2:13  

In 2012, it was on the blacklist of the best unproduced screenplays. And so it’s kind of like, not quite where screenplays go to die. But I guess how would you describe? I’ll put a link about the blacklist.

Mike Dodge  2:26  

Yeah, the blacklist is just I think it’s informal. But maybe now it’s formalized. It’s a list in Hollywood of the best screenplays that haven’t gotten into production. And I think that can be for a variety of different reasons. I’m not really sure why that would be. But as a rule, if a script keeps going into turn around, then I think at a certain point, people start to think it’s never going to get made, right. Kind of like a politician. If you keep losing the elections, eventually they figure you’re unelectable and that people move on. 

So I would be curious to know, because we’ve reviewed films, which are really well received that were on the blacklist for a number of years. It’d be curious if there is any trend into why it took so long for them to get produced. 

Christi Dodge  3:12  

Matt Spicer did, Ingrid Goes West who we know the sound mixer on that film, and we really liked that film. 

Mike Dodge  3:19  

An Aubrey Plaza joint if memory serves.

Christi Dodge  3:22  

Yes. And then Alex McCauley A House on the Bayou that sounds somewhat familiar and Don’t Tell A Soul I don’t think we’ve seen it. Max was sent this script by the guys. He said the guy so that’s why I looked up these two to see if these were them. But I’m not getting the connection. But anyway, the guys from Eastbound and Down.

Mike Dodge  3:44  

Okay, well, that’s a good recommendation, their creative folk.

Christi Dodge  3:49  

In fact, he worked with somebody in that world on the sound. I mean, the music for the picture. He says, we’ll get into our regular stuff here. I’ll go back to the synopsis and everything but I feel like now’s a good time to say he was very much inspired by  the 80s movies. He had an older brother that watched a lot of those movies. And he felt that they always kind of had this confident, cocky, kind of what’s the word I used before we turn on the mics, outrageous character, and that was usually male. And so he wanted to kind of turn that on its head much like another famous director. I know who kind of flip flop

Mike Dodge  4:31  

Flip the genders. Yeah, so if we ask our listeners to hum the theme song to Risky Business, we don’t have to pay?

Christi Dodge  4:39  

Right. I think so. Yeah, they do it on their own guys. So he he liked that. And so that’s he was drawn to the character of Erica, who kind of embodied that idea.

Mike Dodge  4:51  

Since we went down this road a little bit. I would say about halfway through the film, made a note is Erica a manic pixie dream girl and I think she is obviously she comes after Garden State but I felt like her look and her vibe was very similar to Natalie Portman’s character of Sam and Garden State. You know, although you would argue I think the classic definition of a manic pixie dream girl is petty misdemeanors. And I don’t know if extortion and that seems like a felony. 

Christi Dodge  5:24  

So, let me continue with the synopsis. And then we’ll we’ll keep things on pace, because in editing, Buck we we went about 18 minutes into the episode before we did the synopsis. So I want to try to keep up.

Mike Dodge  5:37  

We try to mix it up a little enrichment for the listener. There you go.

Christi Dodge  5:41  

So the synopsis for this film is “A sexually curious teen forms an unorthodox kinship with her mentally unstable stepbrother.” I want to come back to that, but we’re going to try to keep things going. The tagline for this film. Oh, and we got one for you. So you better like it. It’s bad decisions. Good intentions.

Mike Dodge  6:01  

Okay, actually kind of like that.

Christi Dodge  6:03  

I know, I think punchy? Yeah, I think it does work. And so before we get to the pickup line, maybe this will derail us a bit, but I do want to talk about when I read the synopsis, a sexually curious teen Erica’s character, I think, yeah, the opening scene is she’s performing oral sex on a sheriff. I believe it. And basically her and her friends. They said entrapment but he said entrapment. But they’re basically extorting him. They get him on video admitting that he’s received oral sex from a minor. And then they take him to an ATM and get him to take out a bunch of money. I didn’t I don’t. I don’t think of that as sexually curious. 

Mike Dodge  6:51  

No, no, it’s not 

Christi Dodge  6:53  

That that seems like somebody who’s maybe exploring their own to me she was using sex as a tool. 

Mike Dodge  7:01  

Okay. It establishes later in the film and dialogue that she has only ever performed oral activities, has not done other activities, which says to me, yeah, that not really curious. Like you said, it’s a means to an end.

Christi Dodge  7:17  

Sexually curious, to me implies that she’s getting something out of it. And I guess she is monetarily, but from a interpersonal or… I don’t want to sound like a prude. But basically, she wasn’t getting any gratification sexually from all of these encounters that she was doing.

Mike Dodge  7:36  

Yeah, she wasn’t curious. She wasn’t trying new thing. She was doing one thing over and over again for money.

Christi Dodge  7:41  

Yeah, but not in the sense that we normally think of it 

Mike Dodge  7:44  

Well but even then, I’m just saying, You’re you’re curious. You try new things. And she’s not trying anything new. So to me curious, is not the adjective I would use? 

Christi Dodge  7:52  

Yeah, it was more like a weapon. Right? 

Mike Dodge  7:55  

Yeah, like you said before, it is a tool a means to an end. 

Christi Dodge  7:58  

So, this film was shot and only 17 days, but in doing my research, they they had a lengthy pre production. Well, I guess, lengthy when we think it was two times what their shooting schedule was. She said it was about double. So I’m guessing about a month, they had to prepare for this. And as somebody who loves a lot of time, to kind of do pre production and prepare, I mean, that’s my sweet spot. That’s where I feel alive, kind of getting together all of the stuff that we’re going to use and thinking through it. 

How are we going to make this film and it just this film, maybe I didn’t like all the characters right away. But it the process that this film took to, to be a thing, it very much is is is in alignment with how we make films. 

Mike Dodge  8:47  

So, 17 days is a little short. I mean, it’s not ludicrous, like four days to shoot a feature film that would be ludicrous.  

Christi Dodge  8:54  

That’s crazy, right?

Mike Dodge  8:56  

But that is relatively quick, especially when you think if there’s improv involved, and you mentioned pre production. So one way that I think improv films, like I think, of course of, you know, the classics like a Mighty Wind and Best in Show and then obviously very talented cast. But also I think they work out the arcs and the beats and the characters and their backstories and relationships. And so that pre production goes in there helps quite a bit. Right? It when you’re doing any sort of improvisational work, I think to make your day you need to put in the time in pre production.

Christi Dodge  9:35  

Absolutely. There’s a fantastic interview with Lea Thompson and Henry Winkler interviewing their children, but moderating a discussion about the film. And one of the things that Leah said is that Zoey to prepare for this read a bunch of books. She read some Judy Blume books probably to get into the mind of that teenager. I think Which is funny because it was written by a grown woman, but she read Reviving Ophelia, Go Ask Alice like she just I thought it was her mom was very impressed by her kind of diving into this. And I think Zoey took this part very seriously. And to prepare for it,

Mike Dodge  10:18  

I realized that easy term I don’t know if we’ve talked about before to make your day. So in case we haven’t talked about this before, right to make your day means to get accomplished in a day of shooting everything that was planned. And that might seem like a given or a trivial thing. But it is actually quite difficult because filmmaking always has unexpected things that pop up. And making your day is critically important from a production standpoint, like the business side of show, in order to stay on budget, because for example, imagine if you have a location for one day, but you don’t get all the shots in that location. 

Now you have to pay for another day you have to schedule, if it’s a new day added to the schedule that all of the employees have to get paid for an additional day. It’s a big hairy deal. When you do improv, that just ratchets up the chances of unexpected things. So for example, you don’t know exactly how many lines of dialogue you’re capturing that day. And somebody might go off on a riff I mentioned I saw a headline that supposedly Mrs. Doubtfire head 2 million feet of film because Robin Williams would just keep riffing. And what Director wants to say cut to Robin Williams riffing, right? But on the other hand, there are financial and logistical limits. So making your day is a big deal.

Christi Dodge  11:49  

Very much. So in this interview, Henry asked Max, like on a typical day on a TV series, you do like nine pages, and Max said, I’ve never finished nine pages. And his implication is, it’s often much less Yes. Right. And so then if you have a 20, page day, right?

Mike Dodge  12:12  

Oh, and also related to that, right, you mentioned TV shows, there are multi camera shows, and single camera shows and single camera shows are more like films. And so that since there’s one camera, there’s one setup, so if you have two characters talking, you’re probably going to catch at least three different angles, right? The master of them both, and then a close up or medium on each of the two talking. 

Every time you do that, you have to stop and move the camera and move the lights and everything else. So that’s why it takes a lot longer to film than you would then when you see it on screen. Now there are ways to help that one is adding multiple cameras, but then it can be difficult to light everyone correctly. And there’s a cost to that right now you have two camera crews, and they each come with their own costs. So it’s it’s amazing how long it takes to do something short.

Christi Dodge  13:07  

Yeah. And all the departments want to prove that you know, so makeup runs in and grabs last looks Yeah. So let’s see. So we’ll kick us off and tell us what the pickup line for Flower is.

Mike Dodge  13:19  

Okay, so the I don’t know if heavy breathing qualifies as dialogue. But that’s the first sound we hear from the character. But then we get oh, yeah, right there. Yeah, you got it. Very creepy. Yeah. That said the the sheriff’s deputy that is kind of immediately shows us what Eric has kind of moneymaking venture is. In storytelling, they say, start as deep into the action as possible. In this case, that kind of has a secondary meaning. We don’t find out until later what her motivation is. But we do see with an interesting cutaway of her spreadsheet that she has accumulated quite a bit of money with this extortion activity.

Christi Dodge  14:08  

Yeah, I want to go back to the scene with the sheriff because you were talking about show don’t tell. And we she calls him by his first name, which I suppose she could have asked him but there was a sense of, I thought there was a reference to like last time or something. I believe she’s a repeat customer. So although I guess she didn’t extort from him the first time where you would hope that he wouldn’t do this second time, but he

Mike Dodge  14:34  

He hands her cash before the extortion. So it appears that she starts the relationship as a national prostitution. And then once she has the evidence then moves on to the larger pay, right?

Christi Dodge  14:50  

And so but it’s just her casualness during Well, I guess right after the act, and then even kind of the way that her And then her friends talk to him there. This is a grown man. He’s a sheriff, he’s got an edge, and she does not act afraid of him at all. She’s definitely in charge of that transaction the entire time.

Mike Dodge  15:15  

So I do not want to seem critical of the actor, but it’s gonna sound this way. He didn’t really have the build, or he didn’t carry himself like an LA County Sheriff’s deputy would. They’re selected specifically for a very intense, very authoritative look. And this guy looked a little bit more like a community service officer to me.

Christi Dodge  15:42  

And traditionally, I mean that that Sheriff’s Department in at least the early 90s had not a great reputation about being nice guys, you know, like wimpy I don’t think.

Mike Dodge  15:54  

They haven’t completely left behind the police brutality claims. So that character being an LA county sheriff was kind of a little bit of a stretch.

Christi Dodge  16:03  

Yeah, didn’t quite track. We do find out later that her savings goal is she wants to bail her dad out of jail, who we see in a photo still on her computer and then in the locket. And it’s portrayed by actor Jake Johnson.

Mike Dodge  16:21  

Yes, uncredited? I don’t know if he got paid for those two photos. But?

Christi Dodge  16:25  

He’s a buddy of somebody? Maybe Max? Yeah, so her worlds kind of being? She’s 17. So either she’s nearing, she’s either like a junior or she’s probably I would think be nearing graduation. We never see her. Oh, no. She does go to school because she punches the one girl at school.

Mike Dodge  16:46  

Yeah, I think the establishment in dialog at least by implication that high school new stepbrother is 18. And she’s 17. Correct. Correct.

Christi Dodge  16:56  

So she’s at the point where, you know, I mean, that is a transition going from being in high school to being an adult. She’s not yet an adult. We know that. And then her mom has a new beau. And the brother says like, maybe they’re engaged, but they’re he’s moved in. So a strange man. Well, I mean, she calls him strange, but a new person comes into her house and eats her food, and she says.  Then now she’s going to have a stepbrother who’s getting out of rehab. And I want to I’m going to just say right now, because I don’t want to forget the gentleman. There’s a guy that walks out and she goes, Ooh, he’s hot. 

Her mom says, oh, yeah, that’s, I can’t remember what named a sponsor. Yeah, that’s his sponsor. And that’s actually the camera operator. Oh, wow. They didn’t even have a budget for the background. And so he’s the camera up. So actually, the cinematographer must have been filming that scene. They said because normally she, Carolina did, controlled like, did all the light, light and moved all the lighting and then she had a camera operator DP, that and his name is Shadi. And he is the hot sponsor.

Mike Dodge  18:14  

Now I know in my mind’s eye, I know he didn’t direct this, but I hear Gary Marshalls voice. “Like, okay, who are you is good looking you over to camera up here on screen?” 

Christi Dodge  18:25  

That’s exactly. That’s what it was like? Yes, definitely. Their budget is like 100x what ours often is, but the vibe and as I’m hearing them tell stories, I’m like, Oh, we’ve done that. Or right. You just grab somebody and go. You’re familiar. Yeah. No, it was really fun. That was the thing.

Mike Dodge  18:44  

It’s like if a director says that the DP or camera app has to then be on screen selling his car. That that that’s an independent film move.

Christi Dodge  18:54  

Right, right. Exactly. Yeah. Stay tuned, everybody. So they pick up the brother and she immediately Huh, I’m trying to think it’s like she’s curious by him. I can’t tell she just wants to mess around with him or like annoy him and like, I get more curiosity like she wants to thump his melon. This end because he’s very his demeanor is withdrawn. He seems very….

Mike Dodge  19:25  

Anxious. 

Christi Dodge  19:26  

Yes, thank you. I was gonna say Tim it he just seems on edge. 

Mike Dodge  19:30  

I from in the dinner scene in the restaurant. I got that she enjoys poking everyone around her to get a reaction. And then when he has a big reaction, I don’t really know why but she does have a she, like turned on a dime and suddenly is now concerned about his well being right.

Christi Dodge  19:52  

Zoey said in one of the interviews that she felt that Erica wanted to because she was afraid of being and vulnerable. She wanted to hurt people before they hurt her. But I agree with you, her mom actually has to bribe her, too, because the kid runs out of the restaurant to run outside and to bring him back in. And so she doesn’t want to do it at first. But you’re right, that scene where they’re out in front of the restaurant. She is, is trying is like being very, I guess sisterly or maternal, trying to care for him. And help him kind of feel better at least come back in the restaurant.

Mike Dodge  20:34  

Yeah. And then she shows a curiosity. How, however, as you were talking, it dawned on me, spoiler alert, Oh, yeah. That they end up together at the end of the film, which, of course, is not necessarily creepy, because they’re not related to each other. They have no, like, shared history or whatever. But so maybe that’s why because she just, she’s vibing. With him, they have a connection. And so that’s why suddenly, she when he has his panic attack, and runs out of the restaurant, and she starts talking to him. 

He kind of gives it back to her in a way that no other character has. And, and she offers to use the one thing that she uses to manipulate people and he declines. And that’s kind of the only person in the film that said no to her. Right. So I think maybe that’s part of how it establishes them as equals, right? 

Christi Dodge  21:33  

Yeah, I had trouble is, since we’re gonna jump to the end, I know, we’re gonna be bopping back and forth here. But I really had trouble buying that last scene, or second and last scene where they did hook up, because I could see them almost just more being like best friends. Because since our relationship started as like, pseudo siblings, I know they’re not related. And they didn’t live like that. But because he wasn’t entirely honest with her. I don’t know. 

Mike Dodge  22:12  

But she wasn’t entirely honest with him. So yeah, I actually bought that because they are both broken, come from like trauma. And then in that situation in that moment, they thought they were going to be caught by the cops, which they were. Yeah. And one of the things we talked about as the film was going along, was the consequence of of their actions with the Adam Scott character, and credit to the filmmakers. They got exactly what would happen. Right. So we talked about it, and I was glad to see that they didn’t Hollywood is the ending, right? He ends up in jail. 

Christi Dodge  22:53  

No, you’re right. Yeah, that no, as you’re talking through, I think I’m getting it cuz they’re still young. They’re 17 and 18. They’re impulsive. You’re right. They kind of were on this high of they were headed for Mexico, because they had killed a guy and they just and they knew they were in trouble. And they were just fleeing. And so it’s very possible that with all of that going on, and then like, he says to her, he loves her. Right. And she probably maybe didn’t even say that.

Mike Dodge  23:30  

Yeah, I doubt that. That the character Katherine Hahn character her mother ever said that to her? I think what we’re reacting to, just to be honest, right, is visibly, you would not expect those two to be together. Now. I think, you know, I’m not criticizing that poor actor. He’s a fine fellow. But he’s a little thicker. And she’s not. And you would not expect that. So I think as a viewer, that’s part of it, is that they don’t look like they would be together. Like she would want the camera, the hot guy not on him. So I think that’s part of why maybe they don’t seem like a perfect match.

Christi Dodge  24:09  

Right. But I think it is because, yeah, it just felt too quick. I think if we had more time. 

Mike Dodge  24:10  

Yeah, they didn’t, we didn’t really see them develop a whole lot of a relationship. I mean, we saw some, but like you said that that is kind of really going from zero to 60. Pretty quickly. I didn’t map it out. But it’s what is it even a month from when they first meet to when they decided to be together?

Christi Dodge  24:37  

I think I needed to see maybe one or two more scenes where he is taking care of her because I think nobody else or maybe even like him being paternal towards her or something because her dad’s out of her life. And then Max Winkler even said that he saw Kathryn Hahn and Erica’s relationship is More as friends, or sisters, and then mother daughter. So I think maybe if he and Erica, if he kind of, I don’t know, Luke is a character’s name. Yeah. Okay, so if Luke, I don’t know, told her don’t do that, or, you know, he tried to put some boundaries on her because she was boundary lists. 

The mother daughter relationship had no boundaries. And I think if he, which he did, like you said, he denied her sexual advance. So I think if he had maybe done that a couple more times, or maybe if he had, I don’t know, put a blanket on her. I don’t know I’m talking out loud, but maybe I would have bought it because then she’s like, oh, this person really cares for me and wants the best for me. And so those feelings would be you know, exchanged okay. I’m, I’m, I feel like I’m beating a dead horse.

Mike Dodge  25:53  

Which is appropriate sensor. last film was Buck.

Christi Dodge  25:56  

Exactly what I was thinking when I set it. The scene with Kathryn Hahn when she has had just about enough of Erica, and she says, I can’t hold on to anyone you scare them all away. That was a rough scene. Like I think I audibly gasp

Mike Dodge  26:15  

Hmm.

Christi Dodge  26:17  

Not for you?

Mike Dodge  26:19  

No, I don’t know that I would actually by that, I mean, I think Katherine Hahn character, it looks to be a hot mess. I don’t think she can blame much on Erica. 

Christi Dodge  26:32  

The scene where they were at the hotel after they’ve run away, and they’re watching cartoons. And she kind of gets in the fetal position and kind of nozzles up to him. I thought that was so good because it kind of showed how vulnerable they were and how they’re still children. Right?

Mike Dodge  26:53  

I think Zoey was like 22 or 23 when when they filmed this, but certainly the characters are yes, 17 and 18. They really don’t know anything what’s going on. But I think it shows that Erica is looking for comfort, right? Stability, right as she’s chasing this father, who is a deadbeat. Her mother is a deadbeat. Sherm, the prospective new stepfather is a total dork. She doesn’t have any real kind of stability in her life, we see that she comes in and leaves her room through the window instead of through the door. It’s just yet such a total mess. I guess that’s part of why I think that works. Is she’s looking for that stability. 

Christi Dodge  27:39  

Yeah, I have in my notes, I questioned. Why doesn’t Katherine, like put more restrictions on her? Why is she so lenient? And I? I think Max explained it. Yeah. She’s trying to be your best friend. Right. Right. So is there anything else in like cinematography writing that you want to talk about?

Mike Dodge  28:01  

So from cinematography, the first thing I noticed immediately in the opening shots was, it looks to me to be about a half stuff, half stop overexposed, and a little desaturated. They went for a specific look. And I think that kind of captures the washed out look, that would be less angle ease, you know, it’s dry and everything in this valley move. Yeah, you can see that there was a mixture of handheld and sticks, work and a camera. You know, I’m not the hugest fan of handheld, but it wasn’t too bad. But I noticed that looked like in some cases, I think it was logistics, right. And that could have been again, for speed more than anything else. 

I loved the horrible fluorescent lighting in the ER waiting room. And so they matched it very well. I had a question which I don’t know that we know the answer to when, when Erica first encounters will in the grocery store. She’s trying to pick him up. They either use a Steadicam or dolly, I don’t know, which as they move through the store, and I thought that was to me, I would do it on a dolly. But I would think a dolly would be faster and easier. And maybe grocery store floors are flat enough that they can pull that off. But I was curious how they did that shot?

Christi Dodge  29:19  

It could have been done tracks too, right?

Mike Dodge  29:21  

Well, except that we see the cameras pulling backwards. So if it was on tracks, we the tracks would come in. 

Christi Dodge  29:27  

Oh, I see what you’re saying. 

Mike Dodge  29:29  

Yeah. And then the last bit and this is we both noticed how much fog there was over the swimming pool. 

Christi Dodge  29:36  

You actually could see it billowing out, which tells me…

Mike Dodge  29:40  

Right, and so I have a separate note. It’s never cold in Tujunga let alone cold enough to generate frog off of the pool. And the other thing was that shot. It looks really cool because if you have a light in the pool and the water is moving, it makes this really Pool kind of wave like light patterns. But how much the water was moving. 

I can tell you from a childhood spent in swimming pools, that’s like six people can involving at the same time someone had to be off screen with like two by fours trying to do a wave machine deal to get that much was like there’s no one in the pool. How do you have waves? But okay, so that was that was my cinematography. 

Christi Dodge  30:27  

For costumes, I love Erica sloppy style. Like she always seemed to have like dirty T shirts, and maybe they were trying to bring how beautiful Zoey Deutsch is down, you know, kind of to the level of poor Luke.

Mike Dodge  30:43  

Well, I made a note early on is and I’m asking this question. No, I’m not making a point. Would a teen girl wear nothing but a wife beater without any shirt over it? But I guess maybe she was trying to sell sex. So perhaps that was that was a cache choice.

Christi Dodge  31:05  

She often would have like a light way sweat zip up sweatshirt or button up almost looks like a boys are man’s shirt right? Like a Hawaiian shirt or something that she would have with it. So I think you’re right. I think she was putting it on when you know putting that stuff over her white tank top when she didn’t want to be sexy and then when she wanted to be sexy show off.

Mike Dodge  31:31  

But speaking of costuming, I really loved the multiple different pairs of bodybuilder pants that Sherm wore for two reasons one, Sherm did not appear to ever go to the gym, but also, man I remember in the 90s I had me some of those pants. Fun colors they were baggie

Christi Dodge  31:51  

You miss them?

Mike Dodge  31:51  

I kind of do actually.

Christi Dodge  31:55  

I love their bad wigs and her sunglasses with the sticker still on the lens. Oh, and one of the things I got from that interview that I’ll put in our show notes a link to Lea Thompson dyed her hair gave her the black roots and then the green on the ends. 

Mike Dodge  32:10  

So it’s funny when you said that I was like, why are we talking about Lea Thompson dyeing your own hair but then I realized what you meant she died Zoe’s hair. 

Christi Dodge  32:17  

Yeah. I liked when right after the scene, I believe with the sheriff. I don’t know if it’s anyway, right after but shortly after it’s in the first third of the movie. We see her room. And the first shot we see is a collection of My Little Ponies on like a dresser. 

Mike Dodge  32:33  

Oh, wow. 

Christi Dodge  32:34  

And then we see other things in her room that make are more iconic with like a teenager. But then she’s looking on her computer at her spreadsheet, which I love girl after my own heart, a spreadsheet of not only the amounts of money that she’s gotten from each of her extortions, but all the names of the men that she got these amounts from and on the stickers on her laptop cover, were very juvenile for a girl like more like an eight year old girl was like a dolphin and a rainbow and you know, a troll dollar you just different things that speak more to a younger girl than a 17 year old and I I thought that was well done because it kept reminding us because like you said, she’s 22. 

And with her bravado that she had, she could come off I think a lot older. So we had to keep kind of putting it in people’s faces like she’s a minor. She’s still a minor.

Mike Dodge  33:41  

And I made a note that when she in the last scene of the film, when she goes to visit Luke in prison, she has on overall shorts instead of Daisy Dukes and she has an alphabet bracelet, which both to me are more juvenile. So I think that was to show us that she had kind of in some sense grown down. Yeah, because of that relationship.

Christi Dodge  34:06  

How about some head trauma?

Mike Dodge  34:09  

We have two Erica punches Ali in the face ally deserved it. And then I’m gonna go ahead and call it head trauma when Luke fails at hanging himself in the garage.

Christi Dodge  34:20  

Oh, that was rough. I forgot about that scene. That’s a time where she was out of her, She lost all bravado like she didn’t know what to do. I mean, she was like, “Are you okay?”” And she went towards him and he said don’t touch me and she just went did she yell Sherm or did she yell mom, I forget what like she was just like somebody else needs to take care of this. I’m I’m out of my league, right? All right. So we already said they hooked up. Do we get like a nice kiss? 

Mike Dodge  34:56  

Smoochy smoochy smoochy! I guess right before we have to smooch Jeez, okay, please first well the pedophile kisses Eric in his car during the rainstorm at the bowling alley. And then we have after Eric and Luke do the Humpty hump. They have a nice sweet smoochy. 

Christi Dodge  35:14  

I would love to think that these two made it. Let’s say that. How about a driving review? We know they took off, they went on the lam.

Mike Dodge  35:24  

They did so sheriff’s deputy Cotter is driving a 2003 Ford Crown Vic, which is a classic cop car. And I will also mention I think that year still qualifies in the Crown Victoria Racing League. So there’s a Racing League for ex cop cars if individuals would like to participate. Sherm has a 96 accurate to four door sedan. And I think that’s really good casting of the car because it shows that Sherm is trying to be upscale by having an accurate, but it’s 20 years old. So that’s all he could afford. And then speaking of all you could afford, Erica says that wills 92 Saab 900 is an expensive car and like, no, it’s like 25 years old. I don’t think it’s that expensive anymore. 

It just shows that he’s a pretentious douche. So related to vehicles will has a line of dialogue that really bumped me. He says, I’ll call you a cab. But by 2016 Uber was huge. I don’t think there’s any reason a person his age would say…

Christi Dodge  36:31  

Other than the producers didn’t want to use a name. And you don’t want to say like, “I’ll call you a car sharing service.”

Mike Dodge  36:39  

I thought call you a ride but okay, yeah, that 

Christi Dodge  36:42  

Oh, there you go. 

Mike Dodge  36:43  

Especially in Tujunga. How many cabs are there done? Yeah. So I do want to give credit for driving is the appropriate thing to do to pull over to vomit? So do not vomit while driving if possible. I’m not really sure why they showed him shifting the automatic transmission when they turned off the road onto a dirt road.

Christi Dodge  37:03  

Well, I might be able to help you this.

Mike Dodge  37:05  

Okay, let me know.

Christi Dodge  37:06  

The actor. Do you remember same who played Luke? 

Mike Dodge  37:09  

I don’t Joey, maybe he was…

Christi Dodge  37:11  

Joey Morgan. Joey did not know how to drive a stick and learned two days before he arrived on set, which was only one week before filming. And Max basically had him drive Zoey around to all the different locations. I’m wondering if there was a little bit of either Max wanted to get him shifting or just to like, did it was he clumsy about it? Did that inform?

Mike Dodge  37:37  

It kind of didn’t make any sense? Why but if it was a manual, which I thought it looked like it was automatic, but it was a manual. B He was downshifting could have been it just I noticed it. I wasn’t sure why he was shifting while he was turning. But that makes sense if…

Christi Dodge  37:51  

No, don’t you always go to second, when you’re turning? 

Mike Dodge  37:54  

You shift before you turn. 

Christi Dodge  37:56  

Oh, I see what you are saying. 

Oh, okay. I was  like you always slow down and go down to second.

Mike Dodge  38:03  

Oh, great, but okay, so I just made a note of that. And then I will say all the credit they got for pulling over to vomit they lost when they made out while the vehicle was still in motion. So kids do not make out while operating a motor vehicle. 

Christi Dodge  38:17  

It just kind of came to this slow start and they were headed towards a pretty large cactus. But when they bumped it, they had lost enough speed that it wasn’t as violent as I feared. 

Mike Dodge  38:27  

aybe that explains the shift. Maybe Max said you gotta get down into first before you film the scene, Joe, you’re you’re gonna die. That’s what it is. 

Christi Dodge  38:35  

Shall we go to the numbers? 

Mike Dodge  38:36  

Let’s go to the numbers. 

Christi Dodge  38:38  

Okay, like I said, this film came out in 2017. It had a budget of half a million dollars, which like I said, is a lot more than us but but I really resonated with a lot of the things that they did and said.  It has a six out of 10 on IMDb. Critics not so fond of this one. I have 50% Rotten Tomatoes from the critics and 42% from the audience and I wonder if the some of the audience had some of the issues that we did kind of, not buying certain things like as we review this movie, I’m actually liking it more than yesterday when we got done. 

Mike Dodge  39:13  

Yeah, yeah, it is like that. It kind of it finishes a little bit better right over time. 

Christi Dodge  39:19  

It’s it’s an hour and a half perfect amount of time, 90 minutes, you know, just throw it on on a Saturday afternoon when you got nothing else to do.

Mike Dodge  39:28  

As filmmaker Dustin often says, Nobody ever says that movie was too short.

Christi Dodge  39:32  

Exactly, exactly. It’s rated R It’s listed as comedy drama. And I think that’s a good tag. It I failed to say earlier with a budget of half a million it brought in $320,000 domestically and worldwide $390,000. So unfortunately, was a loss from that standpoint. Yet it premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival where Max Winkler was nominated for a Best story for Best Narrative Feature as the director After wow he got into Tribeca. Yeah I know that’s huge. It the studio was Rough House pictures which I should look up I’ll put it in my notes to look it up. I wonder if that’s Max’s company. 

And it was filmed in Burbank at the Pickwick bowl and Lancaster as well that where that motel was that they were watching the cartoons so. So this episode kicks us off for the month of December if you want to see what other films we’re going to talk about the remainder of the month, check out our social media on Facebook and Instagram. I’ll be posting that and congratulations to Superfan RJ who correctly guessed he was the only guest so I guess you guys have all given up on the contest.

Well, the people who are ineligible are still playing, but maybe the eligible voters have given up.

So he correctly guessed that last month we were talking about horses and so congratulations superfan. RJ, you will get to choose a film that we will talk about next year. Stay tuned later this month we will talk about how are you going to pick the other films I guess the other 40 films that we’ll be talking about next year. And but never forget

Mike Dodge  41:20  

Dodges never stop and neither do the movies.

Brennan  41:23  

Thanks for listening to Dodge Movie Podcast with Christi and Mike Dodge of Dodge Media Productions. To find out more about this podcast and what we do. Go to dodgemediaproductions.com. Subscribe, share, leave a comment and tell us what we should watch next. Dodges never stop and neither do the movies.