Christi Dodge 0:00
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Brennan 0:29
You’re listening to Dodge Movie Podcast. Your hosts are Christi and Mike Dodge the founders of Dodge Media Productions. We produce films and podcasts. So this is a podcast about films. Join them as they share their passion for filmmaking.

Christi Dodge 0:47
Welcome back, everybody to the Dodge Movie Podcast. This is episode 160 and today we’re going to talk about the film Dirty Rotten Scoundrels that came out in 1988. The directors Frank Oz, I didn’t know he did anything other than muppet.

Mike Dodge 1:03
No. Yeah, apparently. And he was also an actor wasn’t he in Knives Out?. He’s had a broad career.

Christi Dodge 1:10
So in 82, he did the Dark Crystal but that was my that would have been puppetry.

Mike Dodge 1:15
I mean, there was a live action kid I think but the rest of it was puppet right?

Christi Dodge 1:18
And then at four Muppets Take Manhattan and then ’86 Little Shop of Horrors so you’ve got all the film star Steve Martin, Michael Caine, Glen Headley and Ian McDarmin, who plays Arthur and actually, did you make a note or I saw that it’s after that character in the movie is inspired by Hobson from Arthur.

Mike Dodge 1:45
I read that in the trivia

Christi Dodge 1:47
The DP was Michael Ball house. He did After Hours a Dustin Morrow favorite from ’85

Oh, goodness!

’86 The Color of Money ’88 Last Temptation of Christ. I’m sorry, everybody, and 1990s Goodfellas. So he had quite a career. And I think he had others. I just usually pick the most well known ones when I’m doing that.

Mike Dodge 2:11
For listeners who are near to the podcast, our friend Dustin Morrow got to program an entire month of episodes. And he did not pick films just to irritate me. But he did derive some small amount of glee from the fact that the films he picked irritated me. One of which was After Hours.

Christi Dodge 2:25
It was a great month, you should go back and listen. I think it was last August or something. I’ll put it in the show notes. (It was May 2023)

Mike Dodge 2:33
And I’m glad he shared those films with us, but none of them are really my bag.

Christi Dodge 2:37
All right. Sorry. Everybody Thor is walking around, but gonna go with it.

Mike Dodge 2:40
Dog reassessment. He has to find a different bed to sleep in.

Christi Dodge 2:43
We’re gonna go on. The writer was Dale Launer who did My Cousin Vinnie and Ruthless People, Stanley Shapiro, That Touch of Mink.

Mike Dodge 2:53
So Stanley Shapiro, he wrote a film that this was a loose retelling of different name. That was Brando I don’t remember now. I don’t think either of those two, but that’s why he gets a credit is because it’s a remake.

Christi Dodge 3:10
And then Paul Henning, who wrote for the television show Beverly Hillbillies.

Mike Dodge 3:15
right, no relation to Doug. Okay, that’s it.

Christi Dodge 3:18
Maybe? I don’t know. I’ll look it up.

Mike Dodge 3:21
That’s a great thing. How many people in the audience know Doug Henning is?

I know,

Timely reference Mike.

Christi Dodge 3:26
I so wish these episodes can be interactive somehow. I mean, they are to our friends. Because we get text we get random text with no context. Yeah, friends. Like in the When Harry Met Sally episode when you guys are talking about this. We don’t get that benefit.

Mike Dodge 3:44
Some super fans listen to the podcast will walk in their dog. And thus use Siri to send me texts with stuff. So I get no context.

Christi Dodge 3:51
They’re talking back to us in real time for them. But what?

Mike Dodge 3:58
What, what are you talking about? It’s actually it’s kind of funny. It’s hilarious.

Christi Dodge 4:02
It’s kind of like a puzzle. You know what? They’re helping our brain?

Mike Dodge 4:05
Hell yeah, Brain Age.

Christi Dodge 4:06
Because we have to think back. And oftentimes Mike will come in and go, Okay, this superfan just sent me this text. What do you think it refers to? And I will often know, I think because I have the benefit of not only recording the podcast, but then editing the podcast. So I’ve heard it and I go, “Oh, I know what they’re talking about.” But sometimes, neither one of us know. Right?

Mike Dodge 4:28
Which is funnier that I get the text because I only hear this once when I say these things. And it’s and then a month ago, and I can barely remember yesterday, so for me it’s entirely brand new. Every time it’s a puzzle.

Christi Dodge 4:43
Okay, can you tell we’re a little punchy? The synopsis for this film is to con men try to settle the rivalry by betting on who can swindle a young American heiress out of $50,000 first and when we were watching this, I thought, oh wow, times have changed because I think though stakes are so low the $50,000 Like if there was a movie today, like, for example, what I wonder what the amount was in the Hathaway film?

Mike Dodge 5:08
So excellent question I did. I did the Google $50,000 At the time of that film is like 130k now.

Christi Dodge 5:16
Still very low..

Mike Dodge 5:18
And so yes, the Rebel Wilson and Hathaway remake. I’m curious what the dollar value was, it seems higher, like it would be have to be higher. Now.

Christi Dodge 5:24
I’m thinking of did we know I don’t think we knew at the time that we meet Glenne Headley’s character, but later we find out it was prize money.

Mike Dodge 5:30
Well, except, spoiler alert, everyone. Her whole character is a con too.

Christi Dodge 5:42
I know that. But what I’m just saying that was it that amount, because they knew she had just come into that amount.

Mike Dodge 5:49
Possibly that was her setup, right? And we talked on the segwaying a little bit into something that you said before, why is it that we like these two characters, even though they’re con artists to people, and I realized that the in the film The reason is because they get their comeuppance.

Christi Dodge 6:05
But we don’t know that at the time.

Mike Dodge 6:07
We don’t. And that so that part is the credit to Caine and Martin. They were able to play these scoundrels in a way that was funny enough that we saw that as part of, in essence, the setup for a joke, and we weren’t offended by their behavior.

Christi Dodge 6:22
Yeah, I think you’re right. All right. One tagline, “Nice guys finish last meet the winners.”

Mike Dodge 6:28
Oh, good. Very good tagline. That’s a great tagline.

Christi Dodge 6:32
I wish we could get the person…

Mike Dodge 6:34
Yeah I know. I want to find that guy in Hollywood. Good tagline. Good job, Jeremy.

Christi Dodge 6:40
All right. Here’s some trivia when Frank Oz first approached Michael Caine about the key role in the movie, he tempted him with the promise of a cozy villa in the south of France for a three month period to shoot. Once Caine learned that the villa was between his two good buddies, Sir Roger Moore, and composer Lesley Brisca. He said I would be happy to do the film.

Mike Dodge 7:04
Fun fact I had heard years ago that Michael Caine at least at a certain point in his career, chose projects based on where they were filmed where he wanted to vacation. Smart. Yeah, I think a lot of I think if you have the juice, go for it.

Yeah, I bet a lot of actors do that and No, no shade like more power to you.

However Kim Basinger did 8 Mile and I’m not sure that’s place she wanted to vacation.

Christi Dodge 7:29
Alright, Detroit. Yeah. This is the first film directed by Frank Oz that does not feature a muppet.

Mike Dodge 7:34
Right.

Christi Dodge 7:36
And it is the third of five collaborations with Frank and Steve Martin, who they did Bowfinger, Housesitter, Little Shop of Horrors, and the Muppet Movie. And he appears in the film, as the police officer rushing Fredd to meet Lawrence at the airport near the end of the film. That’s Frank Oz.

Mike Dodge 7:54
Oh, good job.

Christi Dodge 7:56
How about your pickup line to kick us off into this podcast?

Mike Dodge 7:59
“Your Highness, please allow me to make this little contribution”. Which I actually think works pretty well.

Christi Dodge 8:04
It’s a great scene because it introduces us to Michael Caine’s character, right, whose name is Lawrence, right. Yeah. And we see kind of, we see how the sausage is made, how he lures the ladies in and how he uses his suave and debonair and appeals to them. And, and so it’s like, we get a quick because it does happen pretty quick. A glimpse of his tactics to know what he’s capable of.

Mike Dodge 8:35
You’ve already too much by speaking to me. Right, right. Oh, okay, Lawrence.

Christi Dodge 8:41
What I loved it is kind of a funny scene because he keeps gret he grabs her and then some another man grabs her, pushes her up against what kind of I guess is like a wall. But yeah, there’s a plant in front of it. And you said, you were what you said when we were watching this?

Mike Dodge 8:58
No.

Christi Dodge 9:03
You said apparently we pushed women into plants a lot back then.

Mike Dodge 9:08
Yeah.

Christi Dodge 9:11
Because it makes me think it’s Suddenly Last Summer. There was a scene where or maybe they just grabbed her and just shook her.

Brennan 9:17
The dame was in the way let’s put her in the potted plant.

Christi Dodge 9:20
We should not be laughing.

Mike Dodge 9:23
It’s not funny if it happens in real life, but it is kind of hilarious.

Christi Dodge 9:26
It was just like this trope that we uncovered.

Mike Dodge 9:29
There were lots of tall potted plants that we can shove women into and when they were in the way, Get out of the way broad, push her into the plant.

Christi Dodge 9:38
We’ve advanced from slapping now we just push them into greenery.

Mike Dodge 9:42
The Ficus Coalition did a great job and getting us you need plants to push women into

Christi Dodge 9:48
Oh my god, this is what happens when you don’t sleep for two months. Yeah,

Mike Dodge 9:51
I consider this a bonus for the listener listeners.

Christi Dodge 9:54
I hope you’re enjoying this everybody. So we recognize him as a grifter and then Freddie, Steve Martin’s care gets arrested and then released. Lawrence is the one that helps. Freddie recognizes Lawrence as a grifter and he returns to France to say, Teach me your ways teach me how to do what you do. Then training begin, so there was probably some…

Mike Dodge 10:18
There was a training montage. And it’s awesome.

Christi Dodge 10:21
It’s pretty fun.

Mike Dodge 10:22
Yeah. And one of the things that I like in in that and this is Oz has a good sense of humor.

Christi Dodge 10:30
Muppets are Muppets are hilarious. In fact, after this. I was like, I should watch Muppets Take Manhattan. Because I’m so in love with New York, it would be fun to see all of the iconic places of New York City in that in that film.

Mike Dodge 10:45
But as an aside, we should have Jason Segel on this podcast, so he likes Muppets too. But in the montage, it shows Freddie following Lawrence from left to right across the frame set up to have this kind of down the stairs to the pool. He’s he’s walking like a schmuck. Then there’s more train training montage. And then they’re going back the other direction. Now he’s got the suave stroll. Great show, don’t tell moment to show that Freddie has now progressed he’s learned. And it’s such an like, visually such a great shot. Just super well done. Mr. Oz in the camera department.

Christi Dodge 11:23
Yes, it was fun.. And then, and so the bet ensues that can they con this woman out of her $50,000. And Freddy thinks he has a great idea he some stolen valor going on here, as our youngest son would would bring out. He pretends to be an injured veteran that needs a surgery. It seems like a foolproof kind of thing because he gets her sympathies, and says that his life could be improved if he had this surgery. And so she gladly says, We shall do it. Then the doctor jumps in and says don’t give the money to him. Give it to me because I’m performing the surgery.

Mike Dodge 12:04
So that is a such a subtle sight gag. Because the character played by again, Glenne Headley, which at the time, we think is just a dim bulb, but we find out later she’s actually playing a role. But she says “shouldn’t the Navy pay for your operation?” And he’s wearing an army uniform. And that is like in A Million Ways to Die in the West. When Seth MacFarlane was talking about, like how little food they have, and there’s the little tin plate has brie and strawberries and just a subtle sight gag. I loved it. It was such a great joke. “Shouldn’t the Navy pay for your operation?” Really, really good?

Christi Dodge 12:41
How do the two characters Michael Caine’s character of Lawrence and Freddie Steve Martin’s character? How did they develop and change over time? Or do they?

Mike Dodge 12:51
So Freddie does this is I thought this was fascinating in the opening credits, it says Michael Caine and Steve Martin are and then they cut to the title card, “Dirty Rotten Scoundrels”. We literally tell the viewer before it starts. These guys are con artists, right? Then they you see them both grifting and Steve Martin’s character has the rumpled linen suit, very 80s Miami Vice colors.

You see Michael Caine’s character in the navy blue blazer in the regimental tie, just showing them as kind of city mouths from country mouth, right? And then, over time, they have the training montage, but you see them both, I think pretty much stay the same. I mean, Freddy Steve Martin’s character learning some different skills, perhaps, but they’re, they’re kind of fun. frenemies like in a “Real Housewives” kind of way

Christi Dodge 13:44
Very much.

Mike Dodge 13:45
They’re kind of working together, but they’re trying to screw each other over and they both know the whole time and then this whole time they’re both being played by Glenne Headley’s character.

Christi Dodge 13:54
Which when does the audience find that out? Not until the very end

Mike Dodge 13:58
The very end.

Christi Dodge 13:58
And I thought it was.

Mike Dodge 13:59
It’s like the second to last scene.

Christi Dodge 14:01
Some movies will tip you off. Like, don’t worry, these guys are gonna get their comeuppance. Yeah. But this one waited until the very, very end.

Mike Dodge 14:09
We see Michael Caine laughs about it, like well played and Steve Martin’s characters like no, that was our money. They have this the second to last shot where they’re sitting on the bench looking out over the, you know, the Mediterranean and talking about and, and then her character shows up in a different role. It works comically.

Christi Dodge 14:31
And she’s basically she’s running a con but She’s inviting them to be a part of it.

Mike Dodge 14:37
And I felt like real con artists would have been quicker on the pickup they really hold on Michael Caine not getting what’s going on for quite some time, which maybe works comedically, but perhaps like I think he would be quicker, right, based on what we’ve seen in the film, right. But those two characters are unrepentant. They’re still con artists at the end of the film.

Christi Dodge 14:57
Yeah.

Mike Dodge 14:57
There’s not really that. But the get there kind of comeuppance in a sense, and I think that’s why that’s, that’s the narrative question that gets answered, right is will they get away with this? No, the answer’s no, they don’t.

Christi Dodge 15:09
But will they get away with the one the new one at the end that’s proposed,

Mike Dodge 15:13
And we presume they will, but now they’re her minions. Yeah, it’s great that throughout the film, they keep referring to the Jackal. It’s an American. And we all assume it Steve Martin’s character, Freddy, everyone, not just Lawrence. It thinks it’s Freddy. But it turns out it’s Glenne Haedley’s character. Really, really well done.

Christi Dodge 15:30
Yeah, really. Who did I say the writer? Oh, is the Shapiro and…

Mike Dodge 15:35
Yeah, couple fellas.

Christi Dodge 15:37
Michael Caine was very excited to be in this role because it was a remake of a film with Marlon Brando,

Mike Dodge 15:45
Marlon Brando. I think David Niven.

Christi Dodge 15:47
And he was so excited to get his he really enjoyed. Maybe it was Nevins character that he was in and he was a big fan.

Mike Dodge 15:57
I thought that he said that. Like he even copied the slicked back hair that David Niven had in the film.

Christi Dodge 16:03
Yeah, he was very excited to do it. For that reason, as well as being able to live in the south of France for three months.

Mike Dodge 16:10
You don’t often think of Michael Caine as being a comedic actor, at least I don’t he seems a little more serious parts of, you know, heist films, that kind of thing. But I think he did very well in this film. And of course, Steve Martin is a comic genius. And I think in the trivia, they talked about other people that were considered for that role. I just don’t know if it would work with anybody else.

Christi Dodge 16:30
I think, uh, specifically his physical comedy. Yeah, exactly. There’s so much of the film that relies on that, like his silly walking, you know, when Michael Caine, isn’t Michael Caine is slapping him. You know, and he’s supposed to not be able to feel his legs?

Mike Dodge 16:50
Yeah, yeah.

Christi Dodge 16:51
I mean, just all of the physical comedy that Steve Martin brings to this character. I can’t I can’t see anybody. Yeah, maybe like a Robin Williams. Maybe. But, Steve, I think Steve can pull off like the debonair, suave and then be silly and goofy, and…

Mike Dodge 17:09
Just what, what great casting in that regard.

Christi Dodge 17:13
Did you know I had never heard of this as much of a musical fan as I am. But it was made into a musical on Broadway. I think in like the late 2000s.

Mike Dodge 17:21
I never heard that.

Christi Dodge 17:22
Yeah, I know that surprised.

Mike Dodge 17:24
That’s interesting.

Christi Dodge 17:25
Was there any head trauma in this film?

Mike Dodge 17:27
I do have a little bit. Lawrence hits a tennis ball into Freddie’s head, always funny and easy for actors to do because there’s very little mass to the tennis ball, so they’re not going to get hurt baseballs on the other hand. And then there’s presumed that there’s quite a bit when they pull Lawrence into the back of the truck, the Royal Navy sailors because they think he’s, he’s been up to no good. So that’s presumed head trauma.

Christi Dodge 17:51
Yes, very much so. A smoochy?

Mike Dodge 17:54
smoochy smoochy. There’s an almost smoochy between Freddie and Jana on the beach. When he’s like laying there. I suppose if he’d crawled down to try to drown himself. Then there is a smoochy warrant smooches Jana at the disco and then Janet kisses Freddie when she surprises him in the hotel.

Christi Dodge 18:10
She was, she got around.

Mike Dodge 18:12
Yeah, well. When your lady con artist just that’s one of the things you use

Christi Dodge 18:17
Use what you’ve got.

Mike Dodge 18:18
Yeah.

Christi Dodge 18:18
How about a driving review?

Mike Dodge 18:20
All right. There are many vehicles in here. There’s a white 86 Ferrari Montiel. It’s a convertible Ferrari that says wealth, right, because it’s a Ferrari. But you can tell the way this being driven that this is not a person who drives this is just a person who’s showing wealth. You had found some interesting trivia that the plate looks like it’s Danish, but doesn’t actually make any sense.

So that was just a prop license plate, which is interesting. We were making a film a number of years ago, and we were concerned about showing someone’s license plate. And one of our film friends said that there’s public info, you’re not really giving away info if you show a license plate, at least in the US. So I don’t know if that’s the same in Monaco.

Christi Dodge 19:03
I am curious, though, because a lot of films take effort to either make something up or to blur it. I mean, I feel like it’s rare to see a license plate.

Mike Dodge 19:15
So in the state of Oregon, the license plate numbers are either three letters followed by three numbers, or three numbers followed by three letters. So just the way they do it. And I was watching a movie, a TV movie, and it was set in Oregon, and they had an Oregon plate. It was actually the background. But the letters and numbers are jumbled up.

Christi Dodge 19:33
So it’s all one, right? How some states just like have seven or eight characters all together.

Mike Dodge 19:39
So the the props department mimicked the physical plate configuration but used a made up number. It was the equivalent of the 555 telephone number.

Christi Dodge 19:48
Right.

Mike Dodge 19:49
So yeah, but that was an interesting clue. Again, anybody who had a Ferrari even if you’re a racer, that’s the worst possible place to try to drive those tiny little towns for Monaco they have to close down the entire town to dry fast I can eat I mean, why why why bother? At that point get a Vespa.

So the the inspector who I couldn’t tell if he was also a con artist or just a corrupt police person, he drives a blue at one Renaud for which clashes humorously with the white Ferrari. It’s this tiny little French crappy car. Right? There is a note that they had a Boeing 727 for the TWA plane. At that time, I’m not sure that Boeing was doing well and TWA, but okay, maybe.

There’s a 74 Rolls Royce that Michael Caine shows up and later in the film, and so of course, a Rolls Royce says wealth, right? Handmade vehicle. If you have one of those, it matches with his character. What I don’t know is whether the character actually own that because he’s living in this villa. He looks like he’s doing pretty well. Or if that was a prop that he bought there at one point, I believe the drive but there’s a red 74 Porsche, and that’s pretty sporty for rich people.

So it’s like at the party when they walk up. And there’s a lot of high end luxury cars. The Porsche itself is more sports car. I don’t know if you take that to a high end event. It’s a black tie, but if so I like it. And then last but not least plane that she flies often is apparently it’s known. It’s a Gulfstream les President Speciale. And so but it was a 25 year old plane at the time of the filming, so not exactly new, but it’s what they could afford.

Christi Dodge 21:28
That was a lot good job.

Mike Dodge 21:30
There was a lot of vehicles in this one.

Christi Dodge 21:32
I guess to show wealth, that definitely.

Mike Dodge 21:34
Yeah.

Christi Dodge 21:34
For show don’t tell.

Mike Dodge 21:35
it’s a prop, I think.

Christi Dodge 21:37
Yeah, a very expensive one.

Mike Dodge 21:39
Right.

Christi Dodge 21:39
All right. So we go to the numbers?

Mike Dodge 21:41
Let’s go the numbers!

Christi Dodge 21:41
This film had a budget of $6.5 million. It gets a 7.4 out of 10 on IMDb. Critics give it on Rotten Tomatoes. 89% and audiences give it 84% And it made $42 million domestically I don’t have worldwide numbers and adjusted for today. That’d be like 109 million.

Mike Dodge 22:06
Pretty good performance.

Christi Dodge 22:07
Yeah, really good performance. I remember this being like a big hit and especially on like then what we now call streaming services. They were called cable services. Like HBO at ran a lot and I feel like like maybe you and I owned this movie

Mike Dodge 22:24
What year is this again?

Christi Dodge 22:26

88. So like on VHS maybe? I mean, this was I saw it more than once it like like I said I think it would play on like Showtime or…

Mike Dodge 22:33
Yeah, I think they should yeah, this was HBO repeat play.

Christi Dodge 22:37
Yeah, it had a good it’s an Orion Pictures film and Michael Caine was nominated for Best Performance by male. And Glenne Headley won the Chicago Film Critics Awards. I wonder if that also where he was nominated? I will correct myself in our show notes let you know what he was nominated for. So that does it for this episode of Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. But first, let’s pick what film we’re going to watch next week. The next movie we will be watching is

All About Eve.

Oh, I love that movie. I’ve seen All About Eve in film school. It’s been a few years so I’m looking forward to, I enjoyed it then. But have you ever seen this film?

Mike Dodge 23:25
I think I’ve only seen clips. I don’t think I’ve seen the whole thing.

Christi Dodge 23:30
I can’t wait to see what you think.

Mike Dodge 23:33
All right.

Christi Dodge 23:34
I enjoyed it. So I think I think you will but especially you love those old timey because then I get to listen to you speak like oh, you should do your your last tagline in your Can you do it? Yeah. Okay, ready that? Yeah. All right. Have a good weekend, everybody. And don’t forget, that

Mike Dodge 23:50
Dodges never stop and neither do the movies.

Christi Dodge 23:52
Very good.

Brennan 23:55
Thanks for listening to Dodge Movie Podcast with Christi and Mike Dodge of Dodge Media Productions. To find out more about this podcast and what we do. Go to dodgemediaproductions.com. Subscribe, share, leave a comment and tell us what we should watch next. Dodges never stop and neither do the movies.